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| Cameron was a great sport to answer all of this for me. |
Q1. How did you get started as a 'wrestler for hire'?
I started doing private wrestling matches when I was like 19. I kept getting e-mails about meeting guys for matches. They were very respectful with what they were looking for. The first few private matches I did were excellent experiences. We actually met often (every 4 to 6 weeks usually) for matches. I'm a fan of wrestling and enjoy it as a sport, so it just seemed to fit.
Whenever I was on a trip for pro wrestling, I'd announce that I was traveling. I'd usually get a handful of e-mails (sometimes more) about potential matches. I've met a lot of great people through private sessions...and less than a handful of crazy ones. Not a bad ratio.
No one should ever be intimidated by me. I'm a shy dork. I tend to be very polite and my number one goal is to have a fun session for both parties involved. I don't care about your level of experience, your size, your age, any of that. I just want you to have fun and I want to have fun myself. I couldn't even guess how many Pro vs. Joe matches I've done, but it's gotta be close to 1000. Lots of people I meet with have so much fun and enjoy the experience so much that I meet with them numerous times. Hence, why you'll see me traveling to the same areas over-and-over. I've built up some fun "clients" who I enjoy meeting with again-and-again.
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| 1,000? Wow, that's a big number. |
Q3. As an outsider, recruiting new talent is one of the great mysteries of the business for me. Some promoters seem to do it really well, while others seem to struggle. How does it work? Can you help us understand the ways that you find new talent?
It's funny how we are hard on ourselves. When I first went to answer this I was thinking how I struggle to find new talent sometimes, but that's untrue. I think when you look the most, you find the least. A lot of times you do a shoot and someone says "I have a friend who'd be great for this" or you are out having a couple beers and you see a guy who fits the bill and next thing you know he's ready to wrestle. Sometimes you swing and miss, like I recently did while at a local fairgrounds. A good-looking collegiate wrestler was working one of the games and I chatted him up, he was easy-going and looked great, gave him my number, but never heard back. That's how life goes.
Lately, I've had GREAT success from fans and supporters recommend talent. I'll get a few photos or names and do a quick google to find out how to contact them. A few e-mail exchanges later they are either in or out. I don't stress too much when they say no. It's just not meant to be...right now. I've had guys say no then months later say they'd love to.
It's a little skill, a lot of luck and a great network of friends, fans and supporters I've gained over my years in the world. I'm lucky.
I also believe in sharing some talent. I've encouraged Guido Genatto, Barry Burke, Mark Muscle and others to go work for other companies. It goes back to I want everyone to do well.
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| Wake up, Barry, Cameron's getting you more gigs! (W4H Charlie Panther v Barry Burke) |
Oops, look like I answered this above accidentally. Sometimes, I'll ask Ron or Mike about potential wrestlers I could use or request specific guys that fans have asked for. They are usually accommodating and kind with it. I return the favor and often initiate that certain wrestlers work for those guys, too. I've tried to get some talent for UCW, but they don't seem keen on it, so I no longer propose new talent for them. Maybe I shouldn't be sharing wrestlers and models, but I'm not one for following conventional wisdom and I think there's enough to go around.
The only rule I have is don't pay someone so they won't wrestle for someone else. Let the wrestlers decide. I think that's a lame move, which I had done to me recently by a group I won't mention. It is what it is and I won't lose any sleep over it. The wrestler in question seemed to be into creating drama, too, so I'm sure he wouldn't have gelled well with the laid-back atmosphere I prefer. So it was for the best.
Q5. Same basic questions with scheduling. We see the same pairings from time to time. Is it coincidence? Are some guys just more comfortable together? Do you ask guys what they've done elsewhere? Do you actively work to avoid rematches or to do something different?
Some guys travel together like Chet, Alvin & Maverick. Some guys get requested more often from custom video clients, so you'll see them more often as shoots. Some I just like being around and get used because they are my friends.
I like a laid-back atmosphere, so it's always nice to have familiar faces around and/or a good friend. It's just how it seems to work out. I guess I should pay attention to that more, but I like most the guys I use and have a hard time saying no when someone gets mentioned or when I'm filming near a wrestlers location that I like. I mean, I'd use Alex Oliver every shoot, even against guys he's wrestled before, but I like hanging out with him and he's very intelligent.
Personally, I don't look to see what others have done or are doing at other companies. I'm focused on what I'm building. Just because someone wrestled the same opponent at another company doesn't mean it's not going to be popular on my site. We have varying audiences and each match is going to be different. Again, I just focus on myself and what I'm doing and what I think will be great based on what I've heard from fans, supporters and customers.
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| Alvin, Maverick and Chet (W4H Maverick Double-teamed) |
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| Maybe I've since this combo before, but not like this (W4H Flash LaCash v Guido Genatto) |
I think at first people would get upset when someone would work for another company. I'm not sure, but I think I was one of the early ones to work for multiple companies. I'm probably wrong. I figure the more places I show up, the more people will see me, the more fans I'll have, the more videos will get sold. Seemed like steady logic. Plus I like wrestling.
Mark Muscle was just in town shooting for Thunder's Arena and it upset me...only because I would've liked to shoot with him, too and hung out with him while he was in the area. I'm happy that he's doing well in wrestling and that he is popular. I was lucky enough to have someone bring him to me. I want him to do well. I want Mike from Thunder's to do well and I want Mark to do well.
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| I like that Cameron's happy for Mark's success, even if it's happening at other places, too (TA Scrappy v Mark Muscle) |
I think based on requests from fans, I would say Chris Masters. I've been on pro shows with him. I've sent him e-mails and such about doing videos, but he just doesn't seem interested. Someday I think that may change though. Kenny Omega is blowing up in the pro wrestling world. I haven't seen him since 2009 at Ring of Honor. We were fast friends when he came to New England in 2005/2006. He, myself, Paul Hudson and Caleb Brand (aka Danny Duggan) spent many weeks wrestling each other in small towns around the area during that time and even wrestled their first matches at BG East against Paul and myself. Would be nice to catch up with him and pretend I had a cool friend who was the #1 free agent in pro wrestling.
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| No surprise that fans want Masters, but could it really happen? |
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| Future superstars in action with Cam (BGE Tag Team 11) |
There certainly is less stigma around it. In my view, I think the girls actually help weaken the stigma attached with doing underground wrestling. I've had a few guys be hesitant about doing videos, but when they did come they had no problem with it. Some have their limits and I respect that. I don't push them past their comfort zones. I think there's enough sexual appeal to wrestling that just that is enough to be hot for some.
I don't think I've heard many regrets from wrestlers. I know a few guys who probably in hindsight wouldn't have done certain things on video, but we are in an interesting period of time where that view on guys doing homoerotic videos will change.
Q9. I would break your roster into five main categories of skills. Experienced pros. New pros. Talented joes. Beginner joes. Bodybuilders. Would you agree? Do you strive for a balance or is it just a matter of who's around? Which category is typically your most popular?
I'm actually against labeling things too much because I feel once you label something you (in-a-way) limit it. I do see where you could describe the models/wrestlers as such though.
I consider the Pros to be the guys on the site and the "Joes" to be the fans. There used to be a show on TV called "Pros vs. Joes" and I liked how much cleaner and professional that sounded for the private wrestling sessions. However, based on your layout of the categories, I will answer it based on that.
Some shoots just fall in your lap. You start with one or two guys in mind, then they have a friend who is down to do it (like Nick Sparx brought new guy Joel) and Matty O'Boy brought his boyfriend Zacky Darling and his friends James Quarterstaf and Dashing Dustin. Sometimes I tell the wrestlers I'm looking for a particular look and they know someone who fits the bill. I also like keeping friends around each other. It makes the day more fun for the guys.
The most popular question is tough. I've been a pro wrestler for 15+ years, so I have a lot of pro contacts and have made a lot of fans that are into pro wrestling. Experience Pros and New Pros are always in demand. Beginner Joes are popular, too. They tend to have the charisma and personality that works for these videos. Those are probably my two favorites and most popular categories that you listed (well, technically 3 categories).
Bodybuilders are popular, as well as the Beginner Joes (everything is actually fairly close in popularity), but they tend to be a tad more effort to work with. Mark Muscle was a great addition and caught on quick. He actually is popular with the locker room because of his fun antics when he wrestles and taunts his opponents. The Beginner Joes tend to be better on the ground, so I try not to have them do too much standing up or big pro wrestling moves until they get comfortable, but Jayden Mayne, CJ Reznik, Matty O'Boy, Nick Sparx, Alex Oliver and a few others have all been fun to work with.
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| Nick Sparx and CJ Reznik do look like fun (W4H Nick Sparx v CJ Reznik) |
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| Thank Nick Sparx for cutie Joel aka Blake Starr (aka Tony Romo lookalike aka Slim McSmiley as I named him on my Twitter) |
The new guys get a run-through of the basic holds and basic idea of the scenes. I'd like to think I am very efficient in my training style, even something as complicated as taking a "bump" or falling properly can be reduced to the simplest steps. I've been to loads of wrestling schools that use repetition to get bumps down, but that leads to sore bodies and useless wrestlers. The basics of bumping ... land as flat as possible, tuck your chin to your chest and breathe out as you're landing. It can be more in-depth, but that's the overall basic idea.
CJ Reznik, Nick Sparx, Rendell Zebu all had less than 30 minutes of wrestling training with me. Alex Oliver had almost zero training, but caught on real quick on how to take a beating. Last weekend I through Joel into a match with no training just to see what he'd do. Same with Matty O'Boy & Dashing Dustin.
My main goal is to get them actually comfortable being in a wrestling match, so I put them with a friend or an experienced guy who knows how to lead a match. Once these guys get beyond their nervousness then things tend to go smoothly. Sometimes the best thing you can do for people is to just let them play with each other and see what comes out of it.
I have had a few guys who just didn't work out. I won't name names. For whatever reason they just couldn't figure out how to relax in a match and have fun or how to sell the pain or they were just too hard for the other guys to do moves to. It doesn't happen often though.
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| 30 minutes was enough for Nick to get his ass kicked (W4H Marco Thunder vs. Nick Sparx) |
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| Okay, let's see what Blake Starr can do |
(1) Obviously I over-thought his roster. He didn't agree with my obsessive-compulsive need to compartmentalize the world nor my actual labels. However, I appreciate him being a trooper and going along with them. I still like my categories, but I also like that Cameron seems to view all his guys as more three-dimensional characters.
(2) I love Cameron's answers on being a wrestler for hire. He seems like he'd be a great match, very accommodating and fun. With all the freely available matchups on wrestling personal sites, you need to be something special to get paid for it. The fact that he has a lot of satisfied customers is a testament to the experience he provides.
(3) I kind of knew that networking was the best recruiting tool, but I am surprised at how open and collaborative it all seems to be. No wonder guys appear in so many places. It certainly seems like most places are open to the idea of sharing. Or maybe they know that there's no point in fighting it.
(4) I wonder who is paying guys to be exclusive and why? It seems wasteful - that money could be going to something more important. It also feels wholly unnecessary in this day and age. In fact, I think it's counter-productive. Hypothetically, if an exclusive guy wrestled somewhere else and I liked him as a wrestler, I might follow him back to his original home. It certainly worked with Dave Calbrese, where I was wary of the quality/credibility of the other site, but I took a risk thanks to seeing him at Movimus. If a guy is good, fans will find the money once they discover him.
(5) If Chris Masters ever wrestled for an underground federation, the gay-wrestling internet would freaking explode. Enough said.
(6) More confirmation that any stigma that might have once existed is really non-existent, which is awesome. It was not that long ago that guys like Dick Rick and Big Sexy asked bloggers to remove content, but clearly it's unnecessary (not to mention pointless) now. Just look at how many of the biggest stars have worked for Can-Am, BGEast and others. Wrestling isn't porn (unless you choose to go that way), so there's no reason underground wrestling should be an issue. Heck, Joey Ryan's more adult in the indies than ever he was for Cyberfights and he's one of the biggest indie stars around. Hopefully every young stud is getting the message that this is a great way to improve their skills and earn some extra money.
(7) I am amazed that there isn't more training involved. I have my fictional producers put guys through a ton of training and evaluation, but that's the difference between fiction and reality, right? These are small companies and they want everything on video. They obviously can't work with a guy for weeks before using him, but if it's standard industry practice, it does explain some of the videos I've seen over the years.
So that's it for my first interview-type experience. Hopefully you found it interesting. I did. Please take some time to comment and let me know what you think!
Alex
What an excellent feature. I especially like the fact that they discussed the gay aspect of wrestling, which is not always a foreplay to a happy ending.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the compliment. I'm happy this Q&A series was interesting.
DeleteThis is perhaps the best of the three parts.
ReplyDeleteLots of very interesting points. First is Camerons personal experience with getting hired for private wrestling. I think most people would not even think of that, because of exactly what you mentioned, the intimidation factor. That is something that if perhaps the wall was broken a little it could happen more often. Very interesting.
I agree with the point of sharing talent. Specially with your point in respect to Calbrese. Ive seen videos of the original company he was with, and it was rather not well produced. Yet he still shined.
The stigma topic I truly loved. To be honest, that's a topic that can be explored further. You gave one fine example, Joey Ryan. He was in national media for his "power" move. And it doesn't get more clear than that. I think we are on a cusp of guys realizing how great this underground movement is. I personally think its awesome. I think all talent should see it as a great tool to have experience, and have fun while getting paid. Plus get to meet cool people. I think for example one thing is to see Eagle, Steel, Marco, Dozer, Kid Dynamite in a photo which is hot hot hot, don't get me wrong, that is what my blog is about, but another is to see them in action. Yeah, one of them I was a bit, disappointed but the rest actually impressed me a lot more. As a blogger, and someone that has been paying very close attention to the fitness and modeling industry for 25 years, the stock of the guys above, as an example, for me has gone up, way up. They have become leaders in their field. And Thunders has been instrumental of doing it. And Ive noticed that Cameron is also joining in. So that is AWSM. I want to be able to post his material on frickssexywrestling. So hopefully some of the other guys wise up and follow their lead.
In regards to the training. I was also surprised. Then again I probably understand why. Time is money literally. Perhaps that's where some of the guys can help by working with these producers more often. If Cameron is near Thunders, they should really try to work with both. Its like superfast learning. That's just my tidbit. We have been taught that you have to take a semester of classes in order to "learn" something when in fact we all know that they could have taught that in a couple of weeks! So if you got producers close by work with all of them. Then let them negotiate the releases!
You got me going with this one Miller! Thank you and Cameron for a great interview!!!
You are welcome. Cameron was great for doing this. His answers are all thoughtful, interesting and give a great sense of who he is. I didn't realize how many questions I was asking. It didn't seem that long, but I definitely appreciate his perseverance and effort.
DeleteWhile the comment about Eli Black sounds like a funny story about a small guy with a lot of spunk, there were some unfunny consequences to his attitude. Namely, it led him to try moves no one his size should ever try to a dangerous level. Take his match with Rio Garza...
ReplyDeleteThe storyline itself was hot: the 6 foot tall, 200 lb bodybuilder hits the ring flexing and gets slaughtered by his 5'4'', 130 lb opponent who happens to be a deeply skilled MMA fighter. While mixed martial arts sounds like a really an exciting sport, 25 minutes of arm bars and ankle locks is boring, so they added some pro wrestling moves. There's a spot where Black's supposed to suplex Garza. To put it mildly, a shorter guy suplexing a taller one cleanly is nearly impossible, especially when the taller guy is much heavier. Think of a playground see saw, but instead of the pivot being in the middle, it's moved a foot to one side, and on that longer side there's a stack of bricks, too. So...
Black and Garza get in position. Being shorter, Black doesn't bend his knees much at the start of the move, which matters because not only does he lose much-needed leverage, it doesn't signal the start of the move to Garza. Garza subsequently doesn't get enough of a push to help Black lever his torso up to the vertical position, where Garza would then straighten his legs so his weight ends up balanced directly onto Black's shoulder. In a correctly executed suplex, the wrestlers then pause so the audience could gasp at the dramatic sight of one guy upended on the other with this toes pointing straight up 10+ feet above the mat, but also so the guy on the bottom could stiffen his legs and spine so he could fall backward in a clean arc, which would make both wrestlers hit the mat at the same time. Looks devastating, but both wrestlers are fine because all of the impact is safely spread over both bodies. (Continued next post...)
(...con't from above)
ReplyDeleteBut in this case, Black doesn't come close to levering the 9 inches taller and 70 lbs heavier Garza anywhere near the vertical position. Instead of lowering Garza back down and trying again (which would have actually made the suplex look more realistic and better), stupid idiot Black like a big stupid idiot tries to complete the move anyway. Garza tries to straighten his legs to do the move correctly, but since his body at the apex of the move was jutting out at a 45 degree angle, can't get them up and over in that split second to compensate for Black's stupidity. Since Garza's head is also tucked underneath Black's armpit, he can't even get his arms up to protect himself. So when stupid arrogant idiot Black hits the mat, Garza hits it, too. On the top of his head with his head scarilytrapped, all of the impact directly on his neck. Garza looks dazed.
Black is stunned, too--speechless for a rare second. Needless to say there was a cut in the video, where whoever was running that taping that day thanked his lucky charms that he didn't just tape one of his workers getting paralyzed right before his eyes, all because for whatever reason they decided to let Black's arrogance choose to try a move he should never have tried in the first place.
As a coda, stuff like this is also why I often say guys like Garza don't get anywhere near the credit they deserve. They show up to work. They're told because they are in exceptional shape and are exceptionally good looking, they'll have to play the loser over and over again because that's what most people will pay to see. They suck it up, check their egos, and agree to be professional. They bear the vast majority of the physical risk in each match. They have to sit back while guys who didn't work as hard as they did in the gym (or the kitchen, for that matter) get to strut and preen around them and spit comments and cracks at them that would get that person knocked out on the street. Despite being told their the reason a match will sell they don't make any more money than the guys with less impressive looks. And as a bonus, if any one of those guys googles his wrestling name, he gets to read reviews condemning him for not looking every moment of the match like he enjoys and yet is utterly humiliated getting slaughtered by a dick half his size or with a gut or twice his age who spends ever break before, during and after the match talking about how much greater he is.
Thanks for the comments. I think training and supervision are key, along with wrestlers being honest with themselves about their ability.
DeleteTo suggest that producers control every moment of what occurs during a match is naive. It runs counter to the very improvisational and, therefore, unpredictable nature of wrestling, professional or otherwise, not to mention the creative 'inspiration' of wrestlers in the heat of action. We have always been cognizant of working within the skill level of the participants and to understand and respect their limitations. We've been faulted - and parted ways with a couple of wrestlers - for taking "too much time" in producing each match. We believe that the participants and the viewers deserve that much from us, as a minimum. In 38 years of creating underground wrestling we've been very careful to remain injury free. We intend to keep it that way.
DeleteKL for BG East
Thanks for chiming in, KL. It makes absolute sense that producers can't control everything, but they can lay a strong foundation. I'm not surprised that BGEast works so hard at keeping things both fresh and safe for wrestlers. It shows in the consistently high quality of action.
DeleteChris Masters is a great favorite of mine. He is the only wrestler whose action figure I've ever bought. Also, I bought a interview-only DVD of his. I'd love to see him at TA or RHW!
ReplyDeleteIn re training: I see his point, but there's some guys of great promise that I think who'd pay dividends for the investment in time and effort. Some of the models for PWP (Canada) and No Rules Wrestling (?), where Calbrese got his start, are prime examples.
I've often written that I don't like it when some wrestlers get categorized exclusively as jobbers. Cam is himself an example of someone that started off in that niche, but over time expanded into effective heeldom and even fan favorite. I've long been disappointed that Garza, for example, hasn't moved beyond jobbing.
I wish that there were more ways to get pros into fan customized matches beyond the promotions or especially cross-promotions. The closest things to that is in written fiction which is great, but I still yearn for filmed versions.
It'd be wonderful if Cam could recruit some of the models you use to illustrate your stories.
The best superhero matches I've seen was in the comic style art of John Savage's Rants, Roids, and Rasslin' and your photoshopped Images for your blog. I ve never seen any live action matches to compare to these and my imagination, which I began in pre-school after watching Saturday afternoon TV wrestling and reading the latest comic book.
Both you and Cam did a superlative job! Thanks to you two for and intriguing series.
BTW, Frick, since I saw some of your celebrity matches, I keep seeing more and more of them I'd like to see on your blog. Just recently I saw a hot pic of the star of "Leftovers," for instance, that had be wishing that you'd feature him sometime.
You're welcome. Glad you found it interesting.
DeleteRants, Roids and Rasslin was awesome. I miss it, both his jungle stuff and his superhero stuff.
Thanks so much for taking the time to pose those questions to Cameron. He answered several things I've wondered myself. I've had a few email exchanges with Cameron to try and book him for some independent events, and he's always been absolutely gracious and professional. A lot of folks in the industry could learn from his example. (By the way, I'd love to someday see more interviews like this one, maybe with some of the other major wrestlers and company owners in the underground wrestling business.)
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome. I'm glad that other guys had some of the same questions.
DeleteI'd be open to doing more, I just need time to reach out. Joe at Ringside and Bard at Neverland have both done great interviews. If you haven't checked them out, you might find them interesting. Both have search bars on their blogs and the word "interviews" should pull them up.
I'm afraid that a celebration for the demise of homophobia in wrestling, underground or otherwise, is very premature. We at BG East have had many wrestlers, gay and straight, decline offers to work for us, citing our openness as a gay business catering to a gay audience - this despite the fact that we pay twice, 3 times, and even 4 times what our younger competitors pay their wrestlers. We've proudly acknowledged our pride from our inception, right on our welcome page. That is in sharp contrast to the closet companies who either ignore or deny the obvious.
ReplyDeleteHomophobia is also an occasional inhibiting factor during our tapings. Wrestlers, gay and straight, have balked at doing anything even remotely suggestive of gayness. Some have declined to wear anything they consider too brief or revealing. Ironically, we have also seen these very same wrestlers routinely baring their butts and "playing gay" on house shows. So for many guys, there most assuredly is a stigma attached to working for a gay-oriented company and for openly gay producers. While there may be fewer overtly homophobic comments and AIDS jokes in the dressing rooms than occurred a decade or more ago, homophobia definitely still rears its ugly head, in ways subtle and not.
I don't know to which company Cameron was referring but BG East has NEVER paid ANY wrestler to work exclusively for us. Often the fact that we pay more than any other producer is incentive enough for wrestlers to be loyal to us. We certainly appreciate such loyalty and we reward that loyalty with gestures of gratitude. Our wrestlers have always been free to work for others. Are we thrilled when a BG East wrestler appears elsewhere? No, especially if a wrestler has developed his gay wrestling fan-base through BG East or, as in some cases, received virtually all of their training at BGE. We also do not aggressively importune wrestlers from other companies or usurp ring names or series titles.
It's great for all of us fans of wrestling that so many companies catering to our interest have sprung up over the years. And We have no objection to straight guys making a living off the gay community. It's free enterprise, after all. But we also believe in giving back. BG East is proud of its decades of activism and for our contributions to organizations promoting equal rights. It's a commitment, indeed an obligation of any business marketing to and taking income from an exclusively gay audience to give back. We started out as a company with the objective to offer opportunities to openly gay wrestlers and writers where virtually none existed. That, in and of itself, was a political statement. We're grateful to all who have participated in our almost 40 years of existence. For many, working for BG East was not only an act of courage but a commitment to an ideal.
I think this interview was interesting and in some ways revelatory but I also think there were some obvious questions left unasked.
KL for BG East
Thanks for your perspective.
DeleteWell said KL.
ReplyDeleteCameron really is a great guy!
ReplyDeleteI'm going to keep wondering about that drama loving wrestler and the company paying guys not to work at W4H.
I'm a customer, so I don't have the perspective of a wrestling site owner, but I love to see wrestlers spreading out to different sites. There is a much better chance of an amazing match being produced when more combinations of wrestlers and producers are occurring.
I might lose it if Chris Masters started doing underground wrestling matches.
Okay, wow, so Cameron has Eli acting like a diva between filming matches and KL says he could have seriously injured Rio Garza. Wow! Considering how many matches he's filmed for UCW, I wonder if they have any horror stories about this guy.
Also, I am definitely one of those people who buys a match to see the wrestler I think is hotter get their ass kicked. If the previews indicate the better looking guy, from my perspective, is doing the dominating, I'm much less likely to buy the match.
This was a great series you did with Cam, Alex. You should proud!
Thanks Mike. I'm happy with it and appreciate you commenting.
DeleteI do want to clarify one thing - it was a commenter who mentioned the Rio/Eli match, not KL. KL was clear to point out how BGEast is meticulous with wrestler safety and has a great record because of their strong commitment.
Whoops, sorry about that!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAwesome Q&A session! I have long been curious about how the world of underground internet wrestling works, so Cameron's comments are fascinating. Thanks so much for doing this.
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome. Glad you found it interesting.
Delete